By This is bad. Really bad. So bad that one of the lead Android developers themselves are insinuating this is worth walking away from the platform. Jean-Baptiste Queru has just tweeted, “To my Apple, Microsoft and Palm buddies: are you hiring to work on mobile stuff?”
OUCH.
First we heard it as a rumor – Google sent Cyanogen a C&D. Then we heard it from Google directly, albeit without names – here is why we sent the C&D. Now we’re hearing from the Android community and apparently the consensus is – eff you Google.
In the XDA Dev thread linked to above, Cyanogen himself provides the first response by admitting:
Yep, it’s over.
The speculation begins for pages upon pages and it isn’t pretty. You’ve got lots of revelations like this:
A big F U to Google and Android. My G1 will also be my first, AND ONLY, Android phone. I’ve been such a Google/Android fanboy since the G1 was announced – it’s ridiculous. I’m done. Here I come iPhone. Google can go F themselves.
But what does he mean by it’s over? What is over? How over is it? The innocent and well-meaning ringleader himself weighs in by saying he thinks that ALL custom Android ROMs are DOA and everybody might as well give up:
My intent was to make a ROM for Android devices using the bits we already have (proprietary parts) and everything else built from source.
The 1.6 Market was a leak, and most likely untraceable.
Android without the Google parts is not usable for an end-user. There is no sync functionality, no market, no IM or GTalk, no maps..
I was always under the impression that it was OK to do this since I don’t modify the Google apps, and only targeted devices which were licensed for them. Apparently this is not the case.
Might as well consider this entire forum cease-and-desisted.
Then I heard from Cyanogen himself and had a 15 minute chat that pretty much confirmed: this is absolutely out of control. We agreed on a few key points that I think everyone needs to keep in mind:
- Google is TRYING to do the right thing here
- It could have broader, unintended implications/consequences and this is the big question mark
The problem is that by trying to protect their few proprietary applications, Google is essentially shutting down the possibility of any custom ROMs from being legal. But they will still be made and they will still be distributed. Google is basically moving the modding community from doing their work in the light to doing their work in the dark. Forget about getting ROMs on XDA-DEVS… Android builds are about to become torrents and warez.
This thing hasn’t played out yet… there is a LOT still TBD. But one thing is certain – this railroads the entire mod/development community. At this point it is hard to undo what has been done… but maybe that is what Google wanted. Google played the bad guy on behalf of the OHA and Cyanogen was the fall guy who became the example/martyr. Instead of all the OHA partners trickling out letters one by one, Google could nip it in the bud by exposing Android’s larger than life community-loved hacker and saying sorry kiddo, ya can’t do that.
Cyanogen explained an interesting aspect of this whole ordeal… if you own a Google Experience phone you’ve already purchased that software. If you load up a custom mod that ALSO has those custom apps, who cares – you’ve already paid for that inclusion the first time? But apparently based on the C&D that Cyanogen received, consumers/developers can’t even legally COPY applications from their devices. Which raises the question – what is the point in the rooted Android Developer Phone 1 (ADP1)?
And this brings up a completely different question:
Google has always said the purpose in Android was to bring their applications, services and software to more people in the world. Well I hate to break it to you Google, but by Cyanogen packaging your unaltered Google applications in his ROMs… more people have Google apps and services in their hands. But wait… you also said:
We make some of these apps available to users of any Android-powered device via Android Market, and others are pre-installed on some phones through business deals.
Business deals? Yes… business deals. While Google tries to maintain the whole “we’re doing this for the good of the world” profile, they’ve still got shareholders to please. Way back on May 27th of 2008 I interviewed Eric Chu of the Android Team and asked him about Android’s monetization strategy- here was the response:
“There is no monetization strategy for Android, from the Google perspective. We are literally doing this because we believe there is an opportunity to create an open mobile ecosystem. And we believe now is the time to do it.”
I half believe him. The problem is there is a HUGE disconnect between the Google Android Team and Google Corporate Team. The Android Team wants things even more open than they are now. The Google Corporate team insists things be closed up a bit more so they can protect profits, proprietary stuff and send out C&D letters that mean more than they initially think.
My guess is that this was a move by Google Corporate done without enough exploration with Google Android and right now they’re realizing they just set off a land mine in peaceful mobile ecosystem. Perhaps Google had to do something. Perhaps they even fully evaluated the risks and determined that absorbing this backlash was worth setting the record and rules straight. I’m not sure… but this whole saga is FAR from over.
We’ll bring you details as we get them but man… at first I thought this was ruining the splendor of ADC2… now I’m left wondering how this will affect the legacy of Android as a whole. I think the best way to describe this whole incident in every way/shape/form and from every single view point and perspective was exactly how Cyanogen told me he felt about the issue:
“totally confused”
I’m in the “confused” camp. This all seems incredibly messed up but I think we need to raise this issue, voice our concerns and hope that Google and the Android Team are able to sort this out with everyone’s best interests in mind.
Stay tuned to Phandroid… we’ll keep you updated on the latest.
UPDATE #1: I think the backlash has been blown a bit out of proportion. That being said, regardless whether you side with Google, Cyanogen or somewhere in between on this, the below video (which I originally found in our comments) is pretty freaking hilarious:
UPDATE #2: For those claiming my title is over the top and contributing to the overreaction… you’re kind of mistaking the order of events. I am REPORTING on the backlash and using the words “Eff Google, Screw Android” to describe the backlash that has already occured. This DOES NOT echo my own personal sentiments. I have been very guarded as to my own opinion on this and stated that it is “very confusing” but that I think “Google is TRYING to do the right thing”. I’ve written 3 articles on the Cyanogen C&D issue and all of them purposefully stayed away from attacking Google… but if others are attacking Google in such a sweeping manner, I cannot help but report it. Yes, this “Phandroid”, but I still have an obligation to report what is happening fairly and objectively. Perhaps I should have used the platform to “calm the masses” and quiet the outrage… that is a different argument altogether and a more valid one. Perhaps I should have… but hindsight is 20/20.
:) As google said. There is no monetization in android! However, the ‘android market’ isn’t the android platform loaded on the cell phones. There is potentially a huge monetization opportunity for them there. The fact is, there is no totally free run amok software experience in the world. This platform and market will follow the same standards that you find in computer software now. ie a free OS (Linux) …some freeware, some shareware, and paid commercial apps. Why should everyone feel as if they are entitled to free apps? It takes effort to create it! Cyanogen is among those who uses his skills to provide a free service to the community, and there will continue to be those that do so, but perhaps it will just go underground as much of the analogous cracks, hacks, mods, and freeware available for pc’s. I personally think it’s great that we’re talking about this occurring on cell phones! It’s about time! Android is still a great platform, and rest assured, when i get my hero, if i want to root it I will find a way. I’ll be sure not to lose any functionality, and i’ll put whatever I want on the damn thing! I won’t however, blame google or any other rights holder for requesting, asking, or demanding that I not do so! That’s just the way it is. If you can’t have all that you want then you look for an alternative. It’s not that big a deal. This cease and desist will help the community learn to differentiate between the platform and the programs that run on it. It’s more complex that some of you think, so study up!!
Do the right thing Google… Keep Android open.
n900 with maemo it is then.
Agreed… unfortunately this is the reality of the industry, people will find another way to do what Cyanogen has done but this isn’t going to stop me from buying the Hero when it comes out on Oct 11th. The Android platform is still more open than anything else out there and when this blows over, all the lost Android fans will be back.
All I have to say is, if anyone is considering jumping ship to iPhone because of this, they’re going to be in for a horribly rude awakening.
I was so ready to pull the trigger on an HTC Hero on October 11.
Now I’ll probably just keep my Blackberry. What’s the point?
I felt that Android was moving in a positive direction. Every build Cyanogen released got faster and faster. Today I used Safari on an iPod Touch and that browser blows away Androids (speed and responsiveness-wise). I was ok with Androids short-comings when it was still moving in the right direction. Still getting faster. Still getting better. Now the iPhone is opening its gates to more and more applications while Android is closing their gates? What gives, Google? I hate Apple fanboys and love Google. But in the end, I’m going to choose the best platform for my mobile phone. I was ok with going with the underdog when it was gaining popularity/traction, but now it looks as if it’ll stay the underdog for good. Please reverse this.
I think it’s a shame that your message to calm down(a good one) is overshadowed by the title and the unnecessary association of self-important loudmouths(oops, 90% of people online) with ‘the google community’. Isn’t it sad when supposedly net-savvy people don’t recognize that a bunch of people who can anonymously yell in an IRC room shouldn’t become a representative survey of what’s really going on out there? Please.
P.S. I love my Android, think cyanogen and people that help him are doing some great stuff, and let’s let this play out, shall we? At least Google responded.
I guess open source isn’t really open source. Hmmmm…
Rob, kudo’s on a well written article. Too bad Google didn’t put as much thought into the whole C&D letter as you did in writing this article.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VZHT389eR4
I totally expected this issue to pop up sooner or later. If you look at the whole model of Android, Google isn’t making any money off of it (the market might be a potential earnings generator, but not yet so far). There has to be some place where they make some kind of earnings in putting out this software. So right now we see it is from the “Google Experience” licensing and these bundled apps. Also Google is also looking into the future when other phone makers put their own apps into the phone. I guess by doing the cease and desist now, they are preventing other makers from having to put out their own in the future (esp as more phones come out).
Of course this is a big blow to the custom ROM community, which is growing rather quickly and has become a very big part of Android given how sluggish the stock software is for some users (it hasn’t fully incorporated all the refinements at the speed the hackers have, given Google has to do extensive testing before releasing a new build). I’m not sure if any other company had done something similar before. One way for Google to accomplish their goal and still allow for useful ROMs is to have all the important core Google apps available on the Market. That way the ROMs can still be freely modified and the functionality is still there.
Hopefully there is still continued communication and Google can work something out that pleases all parties.
Looks like people may turn to Torrents to get these proprietary programs they are so closely wanting to protect.
“But apparently based on the C&D that Cyanogen received, consumers … can’t even legally COPY applications from their devices.”
Now this is much more problematic than I had previously thought. I might not be fully understanding the implications of this, but to say that it would be illegal for me to make a copy of the software on my phone for use on that same phone sounds way crazy. This seems to imply that even making a full backup of your device would be illegal.
Yeah, I think the Google team working on Android needs to go have a talking to the guys behind the big desks. One of the huge things that attracted me to Android was the opensource roots and what I perceived as the benefits to the end user that would bring. If they aren’t going to be any different than Palm, Apple, or Microsoft, the scales just hit a major realignment.
I think a lot of people are blowing this way out of proportion. From a hacker/developer or xda-developer site user, this is a big kick in the pants. We like to hack out phones and find the latest and greatest tweaks to make it run a little smoother or faster. But we are not the target market. It used to be that smartphones were a niche market product geared towards elite business men who had no clue what to do with it and a small subset of geeks. Android has taken the smartphone to the mass market and we are now the minority.
Google is simply trying to protect what is theirs. Yes, Android is free. You can build whatever you want with it, but that does not mean you can take Google’s apps for the ride as well. I’ve heard too many people bitch about how Android is really not open and bla bla bla. You really need to get over yourselves. Google has put together an incredible product and given it away for free. the only really issue is that they would like to keep their apps and be able to make a little money off of them.
the beauty of Android is that you can create whatever you want for it. If you can’t have gmail, create your own email/contact sync app. If you can’t have Google’s android market, make your own.
What is the best way to show my absolute disapproval of Google’s actions? Who do we write? Who can I call? Who should I send a fax too?
Google started this whole thing saying that it was open… and free!
I don’t get the reasoning behind CanDman’s comments above… “Why should everyone feel as if they are entitled to free apps? It takes effort to create it!”
We feel entitled, because that’s what Google has been saying all along! Come use Android, it’s free, it’s yours, make it better! Here’s a good start! Go for it!
Now it seems they are really taking a nasty turn – a possible forshadowing of the dangers of the giant that is google. Like the pusher-man, getting us hooked on the crack! First one’s free.
I want an official google contact point where I can officially complain!
I agree that this doesn’t look good, but I’ll wait to see what happens.
I still love what Nokia did for the n810, with an open platform and lots of access, but even they had to deal with limitations to software and hardware. Here are some examples:
– The TI SoC included some components that would have been great for increasing the speed, but couldn’t be open sourced because of licensing, and Nokia didn’t have resources to invest in it.
– Similar to Android, the device was rootable, and lots of custom builds and kernels came of it, but Nokia had many Maemo apps that weren’t part of the open source distribution. I believe people got around it by simply copying the necessary pieces, proprietary drivers, etc.
That last part sounds like a way around the issue (provided it’s legal, anyway). Isn’t there already an app backup portion of Cyanogen? If it’s not part of the Cyanogen build, but copied to the sdcard or otherwise backed up and restored, isn’t that a safe workaround? There’s no pirating involved in a backup from the HTC build, and there shouldn’t be a problem copying it back to your new build.
I realize that this is a phone and there could be more intricate details to work out but the n810 wasn’t much different. I also realize that no C&D specifics were provided, so it may have been expressly forbidden.
Anyway, I fully agree that if this can’t be worked out, it removes a substantial portion of functionality, and the n900 seems like a next best option to me. Nokia has claimed that they’ll allow users to get root, but I’m still suspicious that it won’t end up in carrier handsets.
as a developer myself, this is such an over reaction from these developers
google has a right to make some kind of money from this project
if cyanogen stole my android app and started giving it away for free in his ROM then i would send him a cease and desist order also
that doesn’t make me evil (nor google)
they are a commercial organisation and need to make money to keep shareholders happy
no money = no android project
android will keep going
it has too much manufacturer momentum to stop
the dev market is too tempting for app developers to stop
nothing much will change except you won’t get the cyanogen mod
modding or jailbreaking your phone is a nerd/geek thing anyway, for the majority of android users this decision means nothing
calm down people :)
why not buy that Hero?
I agree with Google. Imagine a mod that broke phones. People would blame google not the mod. Or the current issue of too many linux bistros. Google is trying to build a platform. They spent allot of cash to get android going and I feel as though they have a right to stear the development of android in what ever direction they want to. If you don’t like the way google is handleing android build your own mobile OS.
Yay for me not reading.
–
It looks like copying/backing up is forbidden. Blah.
–
Not sure if that was also true in the Nokia builds, and maybe people did it anyway.
Basically, what Bryan said.
@anildash, author of “Google’s Microsoft moment” tweeted 2 days ago.: “Today I’m talking with @Google’s legal team about their “Microsoft Moment” and how to keep from being evil. Got suggestions?”
We all need to take a chill-pill (btw; the title doesn’t help)
Let’s see what happens.
It is blowing up out-of proportion.
We don’t know the details. Cyanogen is still reeling from the C&D letter. Let’s all count to 10 (or a bit further).
Who knows, Google may decide to cooperate with Cyanogen is some form or other to let him continue the great work he has done.
One cannot just freely distribute licensed/non-opensource apps. But Google should help the modders (Cyanogen) to overcome this hurdle.
Again, let’s see what happens.
Developers jumping ship or revolting in other ways is a complete overreaction. What google is doing is not only well within their rights, i just don’t see how one can really fault google here, even if it sucks for cyanogen and those using his ROMs. Google doesn’t want someone else distributing their apps – apps for which they may be able to make money from. Is there any Android developer that would be OK with someone giving away their app while the developer was charging for it elsewhere? I doubt it.
Also Rob’s argument of ‘what is it really hurting?’ doesn’t make any sense. He first claims that Cyanogen’s ROMs with the Google apps are available only to those who already have the Google apps in question arguing that this makes Cyanogen’s ROMs innocuous and so they should be overlooked Google. Moreover Rob proceeds to claim that Google should be happy because Cyanogen’s ROMs “bring their applications, services, and software to more people in the world.” You can’t have it both ways Rob, these two claims are diametrically opposed.
And with most of the quotes that Rob uses he muddies the waters claiming that Google’s left and right hands of development and marketing are talking two different stories. But if you read all of the quotes with a strict delineation made between Android, the operation system, and Google’s Apps they are, at least to me, quite consistent. And if you don’t think that BOTH the dev and marketing teams from Google view these two as very separate pieces you’re crazy. That Android and Googles apps are one and the same is a user perspective only.
I’m confused too. A good community crippled thanks to two “smart” moves. And while Google could have done better, Cyanogen could also. “The 1.6 Market was a leak”… WTF!! What was Cyanogen trying to do with that??
For now, fuck Google AND fuck you, Cyanogen
Wow. I am amazed at the ludicrous things people are saying about software running on a PHONE. Seriously, calm down, step back and take a few deep breaths. Do the people that are freaking out act this way whenever they have any kind of minor conflict in their life? And believe me, this is a minor conflict; we are talking about software running on a phone. You can make it out to be about consumer rights, civil liberties, or freedom, but at the end of the day, it is still about software running on a phone, something you use to talk to people. I’m pretty happy that it works, that it’s wireless, and that it fits in my pocket. I’m gonna sit back and observe the situation. When the time comes to buy a phone and all of the facts have come out, and if I really care about running a mod on my phone, I’ll let my money talk.
Rob, I thought you have done a good job of covering the issue and presenting details, but that headline is over the top. Thanks for the site.
no way
this is big – real big
google’s proving they’re no different than MS or Apple or Sony or any of the others
what a disappointment – boooooo!
Am I the only one who thinks that the Market leaker could have been Jean Baptiste Queru? Of course, only a wild guess, I’ve read too much twits for a single day…
I really suspect this is the google corporate team doing what they do best, like you mentioned in the (very well written) article.
I’m extremely curious to find out what the atmosphere is like over at google, how android devs are reacting to this.
“don’t be evil” my @ss!
How about a translation of this article for aomeone who is just shopping for a new phone and doesn’t know about all this technical stuff? What does all this mean, and should I lean away from an Android phone?
I think I am missing something here.
Can’t Cyanogen just keep developing andriod ROMs without adding Google Apps?
Why not just use his ROM (less google apps), then download the “recommended” Google apps from the Andriod Market after flashing your phone?
Or Can’t you use Andriod Market with an aftermarket ROM?
If you can use Android Market and still get the ROMS (Less Apps). Wouldn’t getting the ROM and installing the software yourself be exactly the same end product?
Cyanogen said that he didn’t edit any proprietary software. So I can’t see the huge problem here considering Googles Apps are free anyhoo.
What some of you seem to be forgetting is that we already PAID for these closed source apps. They were on our phones right out of the box! Cyanogen wasn’t modifying them in the least, and he was distributing them to existing customers. Therefore the blame is wholly against Google for this action. They’re in the wrong and I’m glad I didn’t renew my contract and will be free to buy the iPhone…where you at least know it’s all closed and there’s no illusion to the contrary.
@duntoo.. if you like modding phones, then stay away for the time being. Maybe Google will change their stance, but if not go with a different platform…again, if you want to mod.
I have to say that cyanogen comes across really badly. Google of course want to keep the android platform open but they need to protect their own applications that phone manufactures have had to sign up to use, possibly even shelling out lots of cash.
The entire response of him jumping ship is ridiculous, does he think that developing for Apple would be a better experience? You only have to look at the app store approval process to know that that clearly isn’t the case.
I will be interested to see what effects ripple out from this, but at the end of the day, as long as ROM creators don’t take the piss by including unreleaesed aspects of Android or bundling Googles own apps they won’t have to worry.
As a non rooted HTC hero owner I can’t say that cyanogen will be missed and his entire attitude surrounding this issue is incredibly childish.
i don’t really get it why everyone has to bitch and moan about it. Any legal developer who actually works at a software development company knows exactly that open-source doesn’t mean that it’s free! What the heck is your problem anyway? So they said, stop publishing our stuff. This is totally legal, and ethically right! Besides, google do have to make some money to don’t they? You guys really don’t think much about other people do you?…”buuuwhoo…they ruined our toys..bad guys!” You can’t expect someone to work for free just for our enjoyment. As far as i’m concerned about this hole thing…i don’t know how come it didn’t happen earlier.
We should start developing MaeMo , which is really a Open Source project. unlike Andriod
That video about hitler was just brilliant! thanks for whoever created it, I watched it 3 times.
Well..
I dunno what to say really.
I’m stunned!
I just hope the big G sobers up and appologizes quickly.
This is BAD!
I’m a hardcore fan of Android, but this SUXX BIG TIME!
Bloody brilliant video. I feel JUST that way.
I’m really really pissed here!
Don’t give up Cyanogen!
We’ll just move underground.
Damn it.. don’t start talking about Nokia Maemo… you’re giving me a tummy-ache.
GOOGLE, HEAR THIS! WITHDRAW YOUR CLAIM! QUICKLY! THIS IS THE WORST PR YOU WILL EVER GET!
Rant over!
Damnit, serious bummer. Android was so close. I even shelled out for the dev program in anticipation of jumping 10/11. But this changes everything. I have enough decades (and coding pizzas) under my belt to have seen similar “smell the coffee” moments. We’ve just seen a business plan line-in-the-sand from on high. They might tame the wording but the message was complete and clear. Short of divine/founder intervention, what was Android is dead.
Feels like whiplash looking at Nokia again.
I blame Oprah for my owning this phone now. Got in on that $100 off deal, and got a new contract. Whole reason I went with this phone was the custom modding. Now I’m stuck in a 2 year contract with nowhere to go.
Really disappointed. Hopefully someone codes up a sync app (grab via web, perhaps?), and we can live without maps or just use the browser for that. Plenty of other chat apps to cover Gtalk. The market is a loss, but there are other ways to get (non-paid) apps onto the phone.
Hope someone comes up with a work-around. Not interested in losing a good rom for the garbage provided.
Save cyanogen and custom android roms!
I see a few pople are doing this already:
Download a google app, give it 1 star and comment on cyanogen.
Then email dev department about it
Mark app as inapropriate because of other, then say cyanogen
Uninstall app, mark as malicious.
And repeat!
Let’s flood google!
Save cyanogen and custom android roms!
I see a few pople are doing this already:
Download a google app, give it 1 star and comment on cyanogen.
Then email dev department about it
Mark app as inapropriate because of other, then say cyanogen
Uninstall app, mark as malicious.
And repeat!
Let’s flood google!
(Copied from sunsguy to bump)
Why is this so bad to protect you own developments ?
Your are free to make a mod with free Software.
You simply have to use alternatives to google apps, for example use OSM (Open Street Map) instead of Google Maps.
Everyone should have the right to regulate how his free Software is alowed to distributed.
Oh come on people. Even google needs to sell their applications! Just because there is the concept of openness and open-source doesn’t mean you don’t have a responsibility to stick to the licenses. Clearly using Google proprietary blobs in a custom rom is illegal, so just stop it, create a market shortcut on the desktop containing all the crap u need to DL, and make ppl install it when they first boot their phone. It’s a matter of Cyanogen _WAS_ doing something illegal. If you disagree with the law, go take it up with u’r state senator.
Oh, and to be honest. This is the same sort of community backlash i’ve seen the Linux community give Microsoft time and time again. And it barely affects sales. The majority of the people who are going to buy Android phones in the next 10 years will have not heard of Cyanogen or custom roms and won’t care about any internet backlash. Added to that, most of the people posting are probably still using their GMail accounts and still use Google as their primary search. If u’r gonna protest a company, do it properly.
i dont think we can really have enough numbers to protest this out, but cant google make these apps available on their market for the end users who choose to root their phones and customize the roms??? its such an easy fix to avoid the bullshit and cyanogen can still work his magic.
Good lord, what a bunch of drama queens and cry babies are dictating this discussion and making a enormous big deal of this.
Developers fleeing to iPhone because of this? Yeah, that will give you a much better set of terms right? What does this really change for an app developer anyway? So, if Cyanogen never even started this you wouldn’t be developing for Android? Come on!
Same goes for the users: all of you would never have bought an Android device if there was no Cyanogen rom? Go fool somebody else.
Don’t get me wrong, Cyanogen has done great work and I have donated to him for doing so. But Google’s terms are clear and have been from the start. And now you all are surprised and offended by them actually acting on those terms. You are either naive or stupid.
And to those proposing “flooding Google” initiatives and such…grow up.
There’s a recognised way of doing this, you make scripts to do the job. I remember early days of LAME, it was based on a closed source reference encoder, you needed to “get” that, then you could build LAME. Eventually all the closed source stuff was removed. Same thing here (in a way). We need a script to “rip” and store your closed source google stuff from the phone and store it in some recognised format. You can then get your custom ROM onto the phone and then “inject” the google stuff afterwards.
I don’t know why on earth they decided to not do it in this way, crazy
Ok, so the only thing we have to do in order to save all the (legal and approved of, btw) modding is to make open implementations of gmail (probably easy), Google talk (Also fairly easy) and Market? I don’t see how this is such a huge problem. Ok, if Market is only available via the Google application it’s a problem.
Yes, if this is the first contact Cyanogen has received from Google it has been horribly handled on their part, but wouldn’t it be possible for him to get permission to distribute at least some google applications, and then make open implementations of the rest? I know I’d love to be the one that had written the default mail client of the most used custom ROM out there!
hhh the video is hilarous but commonnokia thats too low
i think they do have the right abd every thing can be replaced except the market common thats just highschool bitchy right there
i think we will have to start using torrent
In practicality Google now controls the Android market. If you go down the list of apps they close-sourced you will see that the barrier to entry into the market is too high for an open community to penetrate. Core components like “Market”, “Sync” and others are just few examples.
The question is not the licensing rights they may have but the overall control they exert on the market. On the face of it one might think that Apple has the legal right to control the iPhone market. Not that simple. Both Apple and Google can do so as long as the FCC does not decide that it has a chilling effect on the market. You can disagree with the FCC’s right to interfere, but that’s another matter (the use of regulated airwaves gives the regulator some unusual powers).
Google just gave Apple a big argument to defent their rejection of Google voice.
And if this community of Android fans brings this issue up, Google may realize that it is in their own best LEGAL interests to back off. Other valuable arguments do not impress lawyers. Lawyers only understand legal arguments and once this issue is brought up to their attention they have a fiduciary obligation to inform Google of the exposure with the FCC case.
-Jeroen,
My sentiments exactly.
Well over the top some people.
I like how Rob put it: “Google is basically moving the modding community from doing their work in the light to doing their work in the dark. Forget about getting ROMs on XDA-DEVS… Android builds are about to become torrents and warez”. For the most part, Android users have been trying to do things ligitly. With this, I see all those users/hackers/devs who COULD have been doing things illigally to start doing things illegally just as a flip-off to Google.
I like Google but they are going down the wrong path with this. If all we have to look forward to is the boring interface and capabilities of stock Android, personally I will have no problem downloading ROM’s develop “in the dark” or just switching to another platform all together.
I’m almost ashamed I evangelized this phone to all my friends and family.
Thanks “Usman” very helpful
Google pls response well to this issue… I am already getting nightmares of Maemo 5.
I am an android phan from the day one. I was waiting for my 1st perfect android phone. Dont want to ditch android.
I am really confused about the whole issue. Cant we just download Google Apps from the Android Market and make it a legit copy? Have the non- google experience phone manufacturers taken permission from Google before pre loading those software? If so, why cant Cyanogen take permission from google? (Does he have to pay to google for it?) Porting Android is illegal too? Is this a marketing move to destroy Android and leverage Chrome OS?
There is alot of confusion…. and too many questions going in my head… the whole page wont be enough…
And one more thing, XDA is the best thing that happened to the Mobile industry. Losing interest from such forums will really hamper the growth of Android.
I agree completely that Google has the right, even the responsibility to control their closed-source software to prevent misuse of their applications and brand name.
What concerns me a **LOT** however, is the fact that not all of these applications (from what I have read) are available for download/installation apart from the “official” ROM.
Who wants an Android phone without the ability to watch flash/youtube, (OK, maybe some, youtube isn’t exactly my first jump when I’m on the web, but I want the ABILITY to do so.) gmail, maps, latitude, app store etc. These closed source (although free) applications are what adds most of the “value” to the Android platform, at least at the moment. If/when open source equivalents of these become available, I would certainly support them by installing and using them.
The REAL problem, as I see it, is that since these applications are apparently NOT available as separate end-user installable applications, is that it is possible that when a telco produces a “custom ROM” for their network, if they don’t want users having access to youtube, video, latitude, maps etc, and they remove these apps from their custom ROM builds that they push out over the air, we (Android users) will not have the ability to install these applications. This frightens me more than you can imagine.
I am already with a cellular provider (US Cellular) that deactivates built-in features (namely GPS) in their phones so they can “sell it back to you”, and have been just sitting around, waiting for a year now (almost 18 months out of contract on my 3 1/2 year old blackberry) for *any* carrier that serves my area (absolutely NO GSM coverage here) to get an Android phone, *any* Android phone on the market, so I can get the h33l off of US Cellular with my 4 phones and my nearly $4000/year i spend with them.
I’ve been counting down the days since the announcement of the arrival of the Hero on the Sprint network, and now I’m having to re-think my decision in light of the new information I have learned about the non-availability of the Google closed-source applications for Android. I don’t know if I would have any reason to NEED to install a custom ROM on the Hero, but I want the ABILITY to do so, should I want/need to do so to get the features/performance I want/need on my phone.
Unfortunately, the only viable alternative (The Nokia N900/maemo, or it’s equivalent) I’m sure will be years away from any kind of a release on a CDMA network.
Where I am coming from: I am a huge advocate of FOSS software, and use it almost exclusively on my own systems at home and at work. My wife’s netbook and daughter’s laptop were never booted into windows, they were immediately formatted and had Linux installed. My mom’s computer is Linux. I also recommend FOSS to customers when appropriate. I have helped 3 friends switch to Linux, one of which has converted another person (80+ year old farmer) and another who has converted 3 other people’s home systems to Linux, as well as the majority of the city’s servers, and has starting to push out OpenOffice.org to some workstations there. (I can not say I don’t have any closed source items, as I have a blackberry, and use closed-source video drivers on the linux boxes that do not run on Intel video chipsets, but when I can, I try to pick the OSS alternative.) I also have no problem paying for software. An app doesn’t have to be “free” for me to use it. For that matter, I have even contributed a few hundred dollars to some open source projects that I found particularly useful over the years.
The aspect of “freedom” is *way* more important to me than “free”.
Google needs to “free” their applications to be installable by anyone by making them available to be installed freely on Android regardless of the carrier, phone model, or underlying ROM that the end user is running. They can easily do this in a couple of way, and still keep full control over the software.
1. They can license the apps to Cyanogen to be included in the Cyanogen ROM builds.
2. They can make the apps downloadable by the end user by accepting the EULA.
Either way the end users win, and Google wins by both keeping control of their proprietary software and by keeping interest alive in their Android platform.
I’ve seen “studies” and such that the end-user doesn’t care what operating system is running on their phones, it’s the “experience” that matters. Maybe, maybe not, but I’ll bet you that at *this point* there is a highly disproportionate number of adopters of Android based phones who absolutely DO care. Once the market if finally flooded on all networks with lots of Android based phones, and “Joe six-pack” starts to gobble up the phones for it’s “user experience” it will be a different story, but if Google “kills their baby” before that can happen by alienating end users and developers, we may never know.
Am I going to avoid getting an Android phone next month from Sprint because of this, I honestly do not know. I have been waiting for 2 years to get my hands on an Android phone, I can wait a little longer if necessary. I might wait and see where this goes, what final stance Google takes with Cyanogen. These kinds of issues have a way of sorting themselves out quickly, if the resolution is going to end up being “good” for the end user, and dragging themselves out for a LONG time when the end result is going to be bad. I am hoping that this issue can be worked out very quickly, and to the benefit of all involved.
I understand why devs and root users alike are outraged by this. When you care about something, you’re gona react strongly even if others consider it being silly cuz it’s just a phone os. Google does have the right to do as they please with their product though. We’re in a capitalist economy so there’s a need to make money and people have the misconception that just cuz Android is OPEN-sourced, they think it’s FREE. Google has to make money somehow but at the end of the day, it’s a co. and it needs money for funding among other things. BUT, i dont understand Google’s reasoning for the C&D letter and going as far as to say ROMs are basically illegal. Cy and other devs only modify the os itself, not necessarily everything that’s in it. They only modify “Google Experience” phones so all these apps that Google says it makes its profit from go untouched. Never has Google Maps, YouTube, Gmail, gTalk and any other Google app been modified by the devs. The only thing they do is redistribute them in their ROMs which i believe is ok. This is because they’re not profiting from anything, including Google apps, they dont modify the G-apps, and these ROMs are only available for people that have already paid for these apps and services. Google’s reasoning doesnt make any sense to me but if this is the case, there probably wont be anymore ROM updates so staying with a rooted G1 is pointless. I’ll just have to jump ship from tmobile to sprint and get the hero so i can be up-to-date with Android os and have enough internal memory so it can receive further updates.
this too will pass.
no iphone will ever be in my life.
He just sounds like an angry prima donna
@bandi87, Ben S, and others who share their views. You guys are idiots if you don’t realize that Cy was only distributing these Google apps to those who ALREADY PAID for it by purchasing phones where the apps were included! Once we’ve paid for Gmail, Gtalk, et al, then how can Google say that we can’t keep using them?
This is like Microsoft forcing us to buy Office 2007 a second time when we upgrade from XP to Vista.
well for me at least staying with the rom i have is fine …i would be surprised if eclair came out for the G1 and i already have donut installed as it is so until this phone dies its gonna be ok i guess
I thought that just by buying the device, you also get the google apps (youtube, gmail, gtalk, and others). Im really pissed and disappointed by this decision. Android is gaining momentum, and this will surely affect it. To me, Cyanogenmod is 90% of the device, without it, my G1 feels lacking and gimped. Im not exaggerating.
Things I did today: removed picasa, replace google chrome with firefox and remove gtalk account.
Things I will do tomorrow: quit gmail, look for my old blackberry and use that instead. My g1 goes to my workdesk so it can prevent my papers from flying because that’s probably the best thing it can do without cyanogen.
For now, im just waiting for the blackberry 9700/onyx to come out for tmobile.
Im sorry if I offended anyone. I wish all the best for android and its development but I just dont want to be in the same boat right now.
@dee. Are you kidding me? Hrow up.
i thought google’s whole “business model” for android was to get ppl to use their OS, meanwhile they would be watching and collecting advertising information and enabling other businesses to use that info and advertise to mobile users
and, pursuant to that end, google would make the overall android experience “better” by seeding it with their excellent supporting apps
now, they come out and stick an eye in the mod community that google themselves encouraged
this ruins all that
what a LOUSY p.r. move!!
this reminds me of that phrase… “jump the shark” – once you do something stupid, there’s no coming back
“don’t do evil” my ass
google walked through a one-way door – there’s no coming back out
boy, i bet google is happy they hired those lawyers now, huh!
The way I see it is this. Before the update you already had the software on your phone, providing it’s the same version. An update would requires you to wipe the phone clean in most cases, so are Google saying when you wipe your phone you forfeit the right to have owned the software on it?
For example, If have a legal copy of windows, my computer screws up and my disk is lost or corrupted. Do I have to pay again for a new copy or can I go next door and ask my neighbour for his copy to install and then use my own registration code. Now as far a I know, MS wouldn’t have a problem with that because I’m using my code on a single computer with the same software, just from a different disk. How is that any different here?
The real fact it think here is regarding the inclusion of the leaked market 1.6. No official phone has that installed yet, so the first phone release with it can’t claim to be the first android phone out there using it, which would be a selling point for that phone and it’s that loss which I think is the real issue.
These mods have been available for some time, but it’s not until the market leak have Google decided to put its foot down.
This is what I think google should do here.
Keep quiet about mods that use unmodified software already on that make of phone, as you already bought it when you purchased the phone. Remember, when you delete a paid app on your phone or wipe the phone is was on, you can go back to the market and download it again without paying again so it seems one rule for the market another for Google. Frankly, it’s an ill thought out PR nightmare for Google and they have a lot of repair work to do right now.
So Google needs to offer a developer license that covers redistributing unmodified copies of the apps in question by non-commercial vendors like Cyanogenmod. Make it low priced with an upper limit on how many copies can be distributed and it can be distinguished from the commercial license they apply to their commercial partners.
this just makes me more and more angry. Why would i put up with androids bull laggy and buggy ui if i dont even have loyalty to the company anymore.
i will most likely switch to webos, or whatever else comes out. this is ridiculous.
A side note here, no one seems to have mentioned it recently. android phones will not boot without google sync.
Google sync is proprietary. Devs can’t just make roms using the current android os without any google apps, the phones won’t work. The only way for rom development to continue at this point is for developers to build everything from the bottom up with no google anything.
I understand why people are upset, but I cannot understand people who say they are going to leave to go get an iphone, blackberry etc. Thats a bit ridiculous. Because as it stands right now, if you have a modded ROM you are in good shape. Your not going to get in trouble, and your software can do more than any of those other phones. If your so mad about them tightening the ropes, why would you jump to platforms that are ENTIRELY closed?
I think this will play out the same as WinMo and other platforms.. try and stop us and it will go underground, eventually getting so big again it becomes the norm and there is nothing they can do about it.
how is this a problem? the only difference this makes is now modders have to do a little more work.
the only thing google is saying is stop using google apps in your mods/apps. all you have to do is reverse engineer the g.app you need, change the layout or something, and rename it. bam. google maps becomes elgoog maps and the creator of that app can hand it out for free and the community continues making great apps without having to worry about google corporate.
frankly i think this was a discusion that needed to happen for the little modders out there, but google not sharing the apps that are most synonymous with the android/google experience is a dick move and they should reconsider their stance. or make g.maps, g.mail, etc. part of the android OS and make a fuss about an app that no one cares about to set this precedent.
I really cannot believe what google have done to themselves here, Remember both HTC & MICROSOFT have NEVER taken action like this! SHAME ON YOU GOOGLE! and yep I shall jump ship to Windows Mobile 7 when its released if you dont turn it around.
Sign the petition, Download the Cyanogen app now available on the market
All Google needs to do to fix this ENTIRE mess (and even gain more “respect” than they had before this whole fiasco went down) is to LICENSE Cyanogen. “Don’t distribute unreleased Google stuff or we’ll pull your license. Okay? Now, show us what you can do.”
@thepeng
That’s pure FUD. Phone would boot without sync. You can skip the account binding if you want in every other phone out there. What has been stated is that “a phone without sync, gmail and maps HAS NO VALUE to the end user”. And the proof is Archos 5, it’ll be Android based and yet not bound to Google (different Market and different SDK).
there will never be a publicly free anything in this world life itself is a gimmic a monetary monster plowing through humankind thats the way of the world but in all hinesty who gives a hoot about what google has to say anything in life worth having takes work, they(GOOGLE)can never take away free thinking so i end with this a true fanboy never waviers keep doing your thing cyanogen and everyone who wants to make their own droid experience BOT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Google will give him a special license where he can package their apps under restrictions and this will all blow over. All this crazy reaction happened before both parties finished discussions. Google will recognize that he’s not ripping them off and in fact helping their market.
I hope the mods can continue to be released with the built-in apps made available on the Android Market… of course without Android Market pre-installed, it’s a bit hard to get to it.
I haven’t bothered reading the 68 comments ahead of me, but I have seen more than a few people say something along the lines of “screw this, I’m going to iphone/winmo/blackberry/whatever” as … what? an act of defiance? I don’t personally use android because of some moral hug the big corp that smiled at me sort of thing, i use it because it is the best platform on the market. Period. The open aspects that seem to have been and could still be are simply the reason it has even greater potential.
well I have at least a dozen people that ask me for advice regularly before buying electronics. I can say that Android phones have now moved from “almost there” to “don’t buy.”
IMO this was a big mistake on Google’s part. I may be over reacting but hey, Google did it first.
“screw this, I’m going to iphone/winmo/blackberry/whatever” as … what? an act of defiance? I don’t personally use android because of some moral hug the big corp that smiled at me sort of thing, i use it because it is the best platform on the market. Period.”
Exactly. People speak before they act. Id be shocked if any of these blowhards really go get a blackberry because they are mad google shut down (for now) the modding.
Well I think shutting down the custom builds or forcing them underground is not that good for the android in the short-term. But we have to see it from a different angle too. Google is making arrangements in a way that companies can make their phones with Google (Google apps) or choose to do without them. Wasn’t this part of the 3 levels of integration plan came out earlier. The mods may probably will affect those deals. That’s the right part of Google. However, we who have the “with Google” phones already paid for those applications. There should be a way for us to keep them on while installing a custom build. Or at least being able to modify the system as we choose. Isn’t that the beauty of Android? I’m using G1 over iphone cause iphone is a closed box. You can only do what apple tells you to do. Android should be free and customizable. So Google and mod builders should be able work together to let us users to have the freedom of Android.
PS. I thank all the mod builders for their efforts so far. My G1 is a better phone thanks to their efforts.
You know all these people coming in here talking about google and there legal rights u must work for google. I came from an iphone to android just becuz of the mods no point now when u can only do and expirement just as much as google wants u to .cyanogen didn’t sell anything and to use his roms uhad to have a g1 or my touch both with google branding all apps were on market all free he just made thing work not like there stock rom and if it was illegal who gives a shit bunch of pussys all these haters coming in here u all probably bricked ur phones tjats why u all talk all that legal nonsense u probably don’t understand either ……( Cyanogen ur the shit man great work and if its all over o well ur final stable rom is the best and is ahead of what google will probably put out in the next 2 years …………. ps : don’t be hatin
while some may actually purchase android phones after this dust-up, the enthusiasm will be gone
.
its word of mouth that’s going to suffer
.
plus, google needs developers support to be a success – how many would-be developers has this affected? how many devs considering android as an option now won’t because of the perception that google is “fighting” the little guy no differently than apple – hey, if they’re both corporate whores anyway, why not make more money in the apple’s app store??
.
the perception is out there that google isn’t supportive of devs
.
again, google is blowing it by responding this way
I do not know how to react to this. I only knew of cyanogen through a few forum reads. I know of Android through the same places.
Open source: I thought this meant that the source code was openly available and any person could make necessary changes to enhance the user experience. This requires the necessary publication of the original author to the code.
Android: Part of the Open Handset Alliance. “Android was built from the ground up with the explicit goal to be the first open, complete, and free platform created specifically for mobile devices.” Either this statement is true or a lie. If it is a lie, Google should send a C&D to OHA to have it removed as well.
Apps: As open source, it is my opinion that the apps should be free. If not free, then some mechanism that would allow a developer, like Cyanogen, to build a ROM with applications. Allow the user to check off which apps can be installed from the ROM. If they have the license already fine. If not, then they get charged for installing it.
Conclusion: Int he end, I think this could have been handled much better. If there is a public developer that is doing what you as a company should have done, direct communications on a viable solution should have been made. I am sure speaking directly and getting both perspectives would have resulted in a much better outcome.
All I want is Big Red to bring a hot HTC predator and Google to let me tweak it a lil here and there. Google’s argument makes profit-demand sense to me, besides, crippled profit (may)=Android death and I DO NOT WANT.
Still a newb to Android, but I like what I see. Make peace Google, figure out this sh*tstorm quick cuz I want my Droid!
“You know all these people coming in here talking about google and there legal rights u must work for google”
Ah, the classic. Yeah, because it’s totally unthinkable and impossible that there are people that do not agree with the childish “I’ve been robbed of my freedom” mass hysteria. They MUST work for Google. Otherwise it just doesn’t compute right?
It’s called rational thinking. You should try it sometimes.
It’s funny how the ones responding to this being an overreaction are the ones who do not use a developed rom on a rooted phone. You poor unfortunate souls. You have no idea what the OS is capable of. At it’s current cupcake version it can still not comptete with Apple. What Cyanogen has done with it goes well beyond anything Apple has put out, but now Google puts the breaks on. This modding has been going on since the G1 came out and now their precious new market is exposed and they freak the f out!! We have a great piece of hardware, several nice pieces of software, but a severely hampered OS that is slowly (cyanogen is fast, i don’t care about testing or whatever google needs to do, if one guy can get this stable light years before google they are to blame) developed and really not taken to it’s greatest use. Can’t blame HTC, can’t blame the developers, can’t blame Tmobile, only one to blame for this slow, stuttering process is Google.
Hi All,
I think we are missing 1 point here.
The issue is not with a single phone
all please remember that.
1) If I have an HTC Dopod a older may be 2005 phone,
I can still get newer ROM’s running on it.
So you wont go for a newer phone. Using Cooked ROMs
I get all the benefits that a newer phone has.
2) Regarding Google, what they are doing is right.
Google can make money out of their apps. And many
companies want to reduce the cost of their phones
by not putting GApp services into their phones later.
Dont consider now. Later they will just release a min
Android platform where users can customise using the
Market and also buy the Google service apps. If cooked
ROMs are there (with Google services) nobody will buy.
Google cant get anything out of it.
Hey im on both sides of the Fence but ULTIMATELY as smart android users, we know what we must do next…..
Iphone was limited, therefore a whole NEW market was made(Cydia and Icy) Both have thousands of apps, screenshots and all, to me its better than the real apple market since it has no limitations.
There are DECENT free email and map applications so that should not be a problem. The market was my only concern but as a revolution, we will SHOW GOOGLE….take away the market for us….we take away apps from your market and make it less appealing.
We all need to connect and consider creating an alternate app market for hackers, like Cydia is for the jailbroken iphones(made by Saurik) LETS GOO!! GOOGLE WILL NOT STOP US!! SPARRTAAAANS, MARCH!!
See you on XDA, we WILL outsmart google.
@BJNK
It’s that “GIVE ME TOTAL FREEDOM, OR GIVE ME NONE” crap.
Still, it completely allowed to make replacements for the apps google does not want people to distribute.
The license agreement is probably worded in such a way that the operator/phone manufacturer has the right to distribute the apps. If that is the case then it doesnt really matter if they are on the phone to begin with. The new rom (in this case Cyonagens) doesnt have the licensed right to distribute said apps, leaving the point that the original rom had pretty moot.
Google maps is available on the market. The market shouldnt be impossible to write an app for (Heck, cyrket and androlib seems to be fully capable of listing stuff there, so just get goin and make an open source alternative. ) if not, then there is always that other market that already exists. :)
I mean, the open source community has always bitched and moaned when someone took their toys away, but then someone just went and made new toys just like them.
This is an opportunity people. Make replacement apps and get a name in the community. :)
I completely agree with Ulvhamne. Rather then reacting negatively… we can should be optimistic.
Love the comments about all the people moving to Apple etc. Really? You think they are more ‘open’ than Google?
Get real folks, Google are absolutely correct to clamp down on this. The guy is still allowed to hack the OS, just not allowed to distribute programs that are not Open Source. I have no problem with that.
Better that this is all made clear now, than in another 2 years. And just think, would Apple, Microsoft, Nokia or any other mobile OS creators allow you to even touch the base OS code?
This is a blow to some hackers who have had (probably) too much freedom so far, but they still have way more freedom than any other platform.
Android is still the coolest OS on the planet and, for me, nothing changes that.
Sign the petition
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/cyanmod/sign/
I dont think this articl is an over reaction, its a sign of support and starts a proper debate
@Nik Microsoft DO turn a blind eye to cooking there platform you only have to look at xda developers to see that, I have only ever known microsoft to object once when leaks of windows mobile 6 started to appear and then it was only enforced until they released it themselves.
Does all this matter?? Yep it does matter …. YES, I’ve had a iphone for 4 months and I can tell you it BORING! sure I jailbreak it and then spend a month loading it with apps but then what??
I jumped onto the android train because like most geeks I enjoy flashing the latest rom to push my mobile pass the limit it was built for.
No cooked roms for android WILL result in “scene” moving on … most likely back to WM within a year.
MAN GOOGLE ISN’T BEING OPEN, LET’S JUMPSHIP TO APPLE, THEY’RE OPEN
Common guys lets be objective about this issue.Google is not saying don’t hack your phone or don’t root it,which is good.But don’t distribute closed source apps,thats it.What is all the hullabaloo all about.
My only qualms with google is that there are better ways of handling the issue than handling down a C&D.
They should have called the guy and arrange to discuss it over lunch,you don’t have to bring lawyers into the mix,it complicates the whole problem.
* Android without the Google parts is not usable for an end-user. There is no sync functionality, no market, no IM or GTalk, no maps..
– Wrong, there are open replacements for IM, maps, I heard even market. Sign in and sync need to be done.
* The problem is that by trying to protect their few proprietary applications, Google is essentially shutting down the possibility of any custom ROMs from being legal. But they will still be made and they will still be distributed. Google is basically moving the modding community from doing their work in the light to doing their work in the dark. Forget about getting ROMs on XDA-DEVS… Android builds are about to become torrents and warez.
– WRONG, WRONG, WRONG AND WRONG AND TOTALLY WRONG.
You just can’t DISTRIBUTE the closed apps. Everyone can still install them after installing the ROM – if they really need them (and most will until there are better open replacements) – I hear they are already working on this.
* Android’s larger than life community-loved hacker and saying sorry kiddo, ya can’t do that.
– Misleading. Phandroid has truly become a sensationalist, FUD-spreading and highly misleading source!
* But apparently based on the C&D that Cyanogen received, consumers/developers can’t even legally COPY applications from their devices.
– Are you NUTS ???
What has a C&D regarding DISTRIBUTING LICENSED APPS TO THE MASSES to do with legally copying your applications to your device?
Please STOP making up things like this, you should RE-WRITE your post entirely, or at least edit those wrong and highly misleading and FUD-spreading parts (most of it)
What CANT you do? you can’t distribute photoshop along with android to the masses.
You can’t distribute a DVDrip along with android to the masses.
You can’t distribute the closed google apps along with android to the masses.
You CAN copy your own photoshop copy to your android device.
You CAN copy your own DVDrip to your android device.
You CAN copy your own copy of google apps to your android device.
Whats so hard to understand??
* I half believe him. The problem is there is a HUGE disconnect between the Google Android Team and Google Corporate Team. The Android Team wants things even more open than they are now. The Google Corporate team insists things be closed up a bit more so they can protect profits, proprietary stuff and send out C&D letters that mean more than they initially think.
– This part might very well be true. However, removing the google apps bit from android DOES result in an open mobile platform. It’s just missing the google apps, for which there are and will be replacements.
* For those claiming my title is over the top and contributing to the overreaction… you’re kind of mistaking the order of events. I am REPORTING on the backlash
– Sorry, but that is simply NOT true.
If you believe you are just reporting, you just bought all of the FUD and don’t understand a damn thing yourself.
PHANDROID, If you really like to go around spreading misinformation like this, and contributing to the FUD that the whining users who don’t really understand whats going on and exaggerate the effects and side effects of the C&D,
and you are willing to keep the post unaltered like that, then I guess its time to EFF YOU, PHANDROID.
You could still fix it, though, and look like a more professional site by REPORTING on what’s true and what’s not true and on what’s FUD and what’s NOT FUD.
“It’s over.” :-)
http://www.cyanogenmod.com/home/the-current-state/
They should just try to do it like the iphone jailbreak tools, where everything is downloaded on demand by the client side application and then modified, so no need to distribute modded roms.
@twrock
“Now its one step more than before”
http://www.cyanogenmod.com/home/the-current-state/
See? That confirms that PHANDROID is just spreading FUD and is highly misleading.
Phandroid, re-write your post already, stop contributing to the whole eff google, eff android, lets move to other (more closed) platforms-movement.
@Ratcom
Who cares whether a few hackers get upset? Android is massive, cool and free. That hasn’t changed one bit.
And, as far as I know, Microsoft allow people to hack their mobile OS but don’t Open Source the code and only because the numbers of people involved are so menial as to not put a blip on their radar.
Android phones will be sold to millions who couldn’t care less about a few disgruntled hackers. My point still stands – you can still hack the OS all you like, with Google’s blessing. Don’t touch their proprietary apps though. No problem.
@Pablo
Yes, that is exactly what I was referring to. The “drama” is over. Cyanogen talked to Google and it sounds like he figured out how to do what a number of people were suggesting: mod the opensource bits and make a new “bare bones” ROM, backup your own device to save copies of the proprietary bits, flash the new ROM and your own proprietary bits back onto the device. Sweet and effective and completely legal.
As I mentioned above, I thought it crazy to imagine it was illegal to copy the proprietary stuff for use back on your own device. I suggested in another thread that if Google lawyers really did say that, there was no reason to believe it would ever hold up in court or that they would ever even dare try to take someone to court over that.
So, yes, the drama is over. But I’m still thinking it wouldn’t be a bad idea to support the people working to make replacements for all the popular proprietary stuff in the shipping builds of Android. I believe in doing that as much as possible on any computing platform.
I am glad to see this news is 2 days old – google reader just recommended it today to me.
I was wondering where you had been!
The people who are reactionary and upset are so childish.. CyanogenMod has been massively grown up about the whole thing. He doesn’t want to distribute Warez – and if Google wont let you distribute their apps, they have every right – they charge the manufacturers a heap to use their logos and software… you have to pay those server fees some how… and those people who work there, developing nice stuff.
Anyways, quoting some random on a forum isn’t all that professional. nyijedi is I am sure an oracle of authority but this article comes across as puerile as the comment for quoting it.
@Pablo: well said, misinformation, ignorance, blinding fanboyism and childish actions by pathetic individuals are all that’s causing and coming from this.
I’ll bet these petition signing, market spamming morons think it will be their accomplishment when Google and Cyanogen come to a viable solution.
And Phandroid has lost all it’s credibility.
@Jeroen
“I’ll bet these petition signing, market spamming morons think it will be their accomplishment when Google and Cyanogen come to a viable solution.”
They have come to a viable solution. Click the links above. It really looks like it is over. Apparently a very reasonable solution was found.
However, unless it really was Google’s intent to make a clear statement, they could have solved this without sending the C&D in the first place. Seems Cyanogen really is a reasonable guy who would have tried to do the right thing if Google had just contacted him without the “legal” people getting involved.
“The first thing we do is kill all the lawyers.” (And, yes, I know that is completely out of context.) :-)
Phandroid should be AT LEAST posting an apology to the android community, they are doing FAR MORE harm to the community than what they think google have.
what’s up with the FUD, phandroid? Are you being paid by microsoft or by apple?
Phandroid is entitled to report the news however he wants. He is only reflecting the views of a significant population of Android oweners. Witness the Save Cyanogen app on the market.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. People are free to make up their own minds based on the information presented. If you dont agree fair enough, but dont go hating everyone and Phandroid for it!
@Jeroen As for “Market spamming morons”!!!! Dont worry yourself, Im sure you will achieve the warm fuzzy feeling you seek knowing that you were right all along to justify your high and mighty status. Easier to sit and complain about the actions of others than bother to show support for what Cyanogen was attempting to do in good faith. Have you actuatlly rooted and installed Cyanogensmode on a G1?????? Perhaps this might change your mind about why people got passionate about the issue.
Market spamming will never bring Google down on its knees and will not really bother most people so whats the problem? Its a sign of support for a man who developed stuff in his spare time and improved the phone for thousands of people, Im sorry if that annoys you in someway. Hopefully this sign of support will put the mod community on Googles radar and make them pay a bit of attention to the unpaid, motivated fans of their OS and applications who should be encouraged and not jailed.
Nobody is questioning the legality of what Google/Cyanogen did, its the “corporate” actions Google took and user frustration at missed opportunities for the development of Android which is frustrating most people. One man, Cyanogen, was doing what a team of developers and operators have failed to do in nearly a year which was to stretch the OS and make it a joy to use on the G1 hardware. He also opened up the possibility of installing many apps from googles Market app on one phone,currently impossible with stock firmware, hence increasing revenues for Google!
@Pablo Get your facts straight!!, the proprietary code which actually makes the device work is not just replaceable apps like Gmail and Gmaps its also the stuff which is specific to the G1! Hence by taking all the code out, the phone would actually never work. Hence the frustration of the mod community who would not be able to distribute improved versions of the software which users have already purchased the rights to.
Its good to see that many people showed support for Cyanogen and its good to see that news sites like this took the time to report the situation.
@Ben Sorry but you are (fortunately ;) mistaken!
What you have been hearing is FUD thanks to people who made up shit and sites like this that spread FUD.
The phone would work, as i said, its the sign in and sync what’s missing. That’s the only part for which we need replacements. The phone boots just fine without them.
I suggest you read http://www.cyanogenmod.com/home/the-current-state/
quoted from Cyanogen: “what I intend to do is simply ship the next version of CyanogenMod as a “bare bones” ROM. You’ll be able to make calls, MMS, take photos, etc”
Do you believe me now, that “news” like this one in phandroid are doing more harm to the community than google issuing the C&D ?
Google doesn’t help themselves by being insufferably arrogant in dealing with the community. I have dealt with them in two separate instances, concerning two separate issues with and two different companies and the result was the same: Google thinks you should be happy because they deliver their products from the mountaintop Google is the new Microsoft and all of the “do no evil” b.s. is just marketing at this point (even though I think they meant it at the beginning.) I hope they can collectively check themselves before they turn into just another money/power hungry tech company.
I re-read the Google response and it doesn’t mention Android Market…only the associated apps. I can understand why Google does not want Android Market 1.6 released yet. It is work in progress and until 1.6 is officially issued to phones with an open-source license it is NOT actually open source. It is the property of the developer until distributed with the open-source license.
As long as a version of the Android Market is available to MODs (and I beleive it will be) this is a non-issue because you will have the ability to download Google or other alternate applications.
One more thing. The argument that you have the rights to Google apps because they were already on your phone doesn’t hold water. You have the right to the applications as bundled with the OS originally installed on your phone. The phone manufacturer has a license with Google to bundle these applications. Once you replace your OS with something else that license is voided and you loose any legal right to use anything bundled with the original install operating system.
Update from Cyanogen.
http://tinyurl.com/yc3mym3
Please people, a simple re-reading of Dan Morrill’s letter and a trip over to Cyanogen’s page with his latest update (now linked at least four times in the posts above) should allow all of us to calm down and begin to understand what really happened here.
As Cyanogen himself said when this all started, a lot of us were “totally confused.” There was way too much misinformation being spread around for the average person to be able to reach any kind of accurate conclusion. I spent a lot of time reading through way too many posts on the topic (including almost 60 pages of posts over at xda-developers.com!) and I can tell you that even the “developers” were getting plenty of it wrong. For those of us who have to trust someone to be giving us the “straight story”, it was pretty hard to sort out fact from fallacy.
But unless Cyanogen himself is completely mistaken at the moment, this particular controversy is “resolved”. And I’m not trying to say that I mean there is nothing more to talk about. I think there is plenty to talk about still, particularly whether or not the community wants to work on replacing all the proprietary apps in common builds with opensource alternatives. But that’s a different issue. The issue of whether or not Cyanogen can continue to work his amazing magic on the opensource parts of the Android OS is settled. He says he has a way that will work and will satisfy Google by not doing anything illegal.
@tke
>he phone manufacturer has a license with Google to >bundle these applications. Once you replace your OS with >something else that license is voided and you loose any >legal right to use anything bundled with the original >install operating system.
its seems from what your saying about the operating system bundle, you can’t even backup your phone which would by then have included other files and program making your backup as different bundled rom to what came with the phone, hence making you backup invalid.
This is the problem, it creates a snow ball effect. Once you start down this road, then many things you throught you were able to do becames gray areas.
@Ben:
@Jeroen
“As for “Market spamming morons”!!!! Dont worry yourself, Im sure you will achieve the warm fuzzy feeling you seek knowing that you were right all along to justify your high and mighty status.
Not really. It’s not about getting a warm fuzzy feeling at all. You were just talking about everyone being entitled to an opinion right? Well, that’s mine.
The difference lies in the following:
“Easier to sit and complain about the actions of others than bother to show support for what Cyanogen was attempting to do in good faith.”
I am voicing my opinion on a discussion board. People coming to such a place can expect differences of opinion and, more importantly, it’s the proper place for that.
Spamming the market (including on the pages of apps that have _nothing_ to do with Google at all) is:
a) not going to make any damn difference
b) being a nuisance to other users
Big difference.
“Have you actuatlly rooted and installed Cyanogensmode on a G1?????? Perhaps this might change your mind about why people got passionate about the issue.
”
I have. Well, on a Magic, I hope that counts for you. Typical response btw. If one doesn’t agree, it must mean he has no hands-on experience with it. A similar reply can be expected from Apple fanboys who conclude that someone who isn’t doing the Hallelujah Apple, must never had experience with it.
And if you read one of my earlier posts, you can read that I also donated to Cyanogen. I seriously wonder how big of a percentage of the Cyanogen “supporters” have done so.
”
Market spamming will never bring Google down on its knees
”
Correct. So, it’s useless.
“and will not really bother most people so whats the problem?”
And what leads you to that conclusion?
“Its a sign of support for a man who developed stuff in his spare time and improved the phone for thousands of people, Im sorry if that annoys you in someway.”
No, it’s a sign of stupidity, ignorance, immaturity and being blinded by mass hysteria. Showing real support would be actually contributing something. It’s about knowing where to have your fight. Upset about something? Fine, but take it somewhere you don’t bother other people with it.
”
Nobody is questioning the legality of what Google/Cyanogen did, its the “corporate” actions Google took
”
So, you’re acknowledging Google’s rights but are condemning them for acting upon them? Something like “I respect the law as long as it’s in my benefit”
I don’t get the surprise over all this. I’m surprised it didn’t happen sooner. Cyanogen knew this was going against Google’s licensing terms. He must have.
Would I have preferred things to have remained the way they were? Sure. But I didn’t get blinded by all the FUD spreading and act like a sheep following this ridiculous uproar movement. I try to keep thinking in a rational way.
“One man, Cyanogen, was doing what a team of developers and operators have failed to do in nearly a year which was to stretch the OS and make it a joy to use on the G1 hardware.”
Did he build the rest of the OS as well?
“He also opened up the possibility of installing many apps from googles Market app on one phone,currently impossible with stock firmware
”
Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think Cyanogen was the one who introduced apps2SD.
“hence increasing revenues for Google!”
Google does not receive revenues from apps sold through the market.
Seriously, the way some are reacting/acting…I seriously hope you guys aren’t over 12. Because that would make it even sadder. Spamming because your little toy has been taken away from you…it’s a phone ffs, do you actually have time to use it? grow the f*** up.
@tke
(reposted due the text format messing up on above comment)
its seems from what your saying about the operating system bundle, you can’t even backup your phone which would by then have included other files and program making your backup as different bundled rom to what came with the phone, hence making you backup invalid.
This is the problem, it creates a snow ball effect. Once you start down this road, then many things you throught you were able to do becames gray areas.
@Jeroen
Google gets 30% and the developer gets 70% of the cost of the apps sold through Market :-P
@Pablo: The carriers get 30% and the developer gets 70%.
@its me:
I respectfully disagree. There is a distinct difference between backing up your operating system and replacing it outright with a different version of the OS. Even in an open-source world product licenses still apply.
‘
I should point out that I am not a lawyer and do not work for Google. This is my opinion on the matter only. I believe I am right but I am completely willing to admit that I could be flat wrong, too. After re-reading my last post I worded it as a matter of fact and not opinion.
@Johnny Awkward
You’re right :)
@Its Me again:
“Once you start down this road, then many things you throught you were able to do becames gray areas.” You see this is the problem. In the world of corporate lawyers there are no gray areas, and never has been. There is what you are allowed to do and not allowed to do. I believe that the OHA and Google need to do a much better job working with the developers so they know were the dividing line is and the Cryogen C&D is there first clumsy attempt.
‘
Android is not dead. In the long run this may even be good for developers. It will bring us from “I think I can get away this” to “I know this is allowed/not allowed”. This C&D letter will save a lot of developers form potential legal action. A lot of people see this as closing the door…I see it as a sign telling people the right door to use.
Just my 2 cents.
Look. There are ways around this. But ultimately, Google have damaged the trust relationship with “hackers”. They have been heavy-handed and pushed the boundaries of “do no evil”.
And because they have essentially “pwned” Android with their closed-source apps that form the basis of what makes the phones useful for getting e-mail and so on, and stopped ROM cookers from adding it back in to ensure that the tweaks don’t break things, they’ve made it a hurdle for the end users. So when hackers and end-users jeopardize any corporate relationships, and 20th century models for business – well, guess who loses out? They’ve just shot themselves, because people will work on ways to lose these encumbrances. New connectivity apps, new market substitutes and the like.
These are primarily for native Android handsets – in theory, we’ve already paid for the closed source apps. Bundling them back into a replacement ROM should be a no-brainer. Google should have at least tried to work with the community to offer a solution. But it seems they were happier to have trampled all over the place like a bull in a china shop. Sorry – the love’s dissipated a bit now.
@Jeroen
– Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I respect the comments you have made. Its the following (and similar wording that isnt rational and is a bit derogatory tbf) which people will object too, as its clearly not helpful or grown up now is it???… “I seriously hope you guys aren’t over 12. Because that would make it even sadder. Spamming because your little toy has been taken away from you…it’s a phone ffs, do you actually have time to use it? grow the f*** up.”… You clearly feel strongly enough to write on this blog and respond to comments so youre in the same bracket.
– In comparison to some of the comments Ive seen about Cyanogen “being a pussy for not just ignoring Google” I think downloading an app to “save cyanogen” and commenting on it is fairly constructive!
– Im glad you installed the ROM, best to check youre not just spreading hate without any basis, atleast you know its pretty good and can see why more tech savy people might be fustrated with poor or limited updates and support from their carriers.
– Unsure how “spamming” the market has annoyed you, all I can see is a new app which I can choose to download or not? If I choose to look at it I can see lots of people supporting good work by Cyanogen. Google will look at it and the associated comments. Nobody knows what Google will do until they do it so it could go either way (Ignore / Respond), 50/50 chance. Given the volume of comments its morel likley to lead to something constructive. If comments are made in other Google apps then again the above still applies. Its not a uselss gesture.
– IMHO I dont think Apps2SD on a rooted G1 would be half as good without the customised ROM and associated developments.
– I accept that when I read comments on xdadevelopers from devs that the phone will not boot that this may be wrong, but I can also see that there will be more than just taking apps out that will cause a problem. In addition without Contacts and Market the phone is fairly useless though and I think people are expressing dissapointment and surprise at Googles actions.
– Your point about revenue from the market is wrong so lets face it even those not actively supporting “action” are spreading incorrect info.
-Legally its clear, but that doesnt mean everyone needs to agree with it! The support has come from people wanting Google to re-think there position. Cyanogen has been doing Google a favour and for free and to send a C&D is heavy handed, even the paid developers of the OS who work for Google have stated their views on this.
– Lots of opnions and views floating around at the moment which is expected, typical fall out from something like this. I understand you dont like over reaction to issues but thats life unfortunatley. Take the scenes Ive witnessed here in the UK showing the US view of our NHS! The dust will settle and we can all go back to normality. But theres no point in shouting everyone down because you disagree, lots of people actually think that Googles actions are counter productive to the wider take up of Android and they are probably right. It would be good if something could be worked out for longer term with Google.
– Thankfully it looks like people are working on a short term solution for the ROMs and I think @tke789 summed it up well enough.
“A big F U to Google and Android. My G1 will also be my first, AND ONLY, Android phone. I’ve been such a Google/Android fanboy since the G1 was announced – it’s ridiculous. I’m done. Here I come iPhone.”
I’m sorry, but isn’t that a bit like moving to North Korea because you’re pissed off about the PATRIOT Act?
@Ben:
“You clearly feel strongly enough to write on this blog and respond to comments so youre in the same bracket.”
I was referring to idiots spamming the market. That’s the childish part. You’ll won’t see me doing things like that. I keep the discussion where it is appropriate. So no I’m not in the same bracket.
“In comparison to some of the comments Ive seen about Cyanogen “being a pussy for not just ignoring Google” I think downloading an app to “save cyanogen” and commenting on it is fairly constructive!”
I found Cyanogen’s remarks and comments on the matter very professional and realistic. Something his “followers” could take as an example. Do understand I have no objections to Cyanogen or his work. Far from it. The misinformation and mindless fanboyism I do have a problem with. I also have no problem at all with the Cyanogen petition on the market. It’s going into the comments of other apps (Google apps _and_ not Google related apps) and posting crap there…
“Unsure how “spamming” the market has annoyed you, all I can see is a new app which I can choose to download or not? If I choose to look at it I can see lots of people supporting good work by Cyanogen.”
As above.
“Your point about revenue from the market is wrong so lets face it even those not actively supporting “action” are spreading incorrect info.”
Actually no, I was not wrong about that. Google does not receive any revenue from the apps sold through the market.
Developers get 70%, the remaining 30% goes to carriers and billing expenses.
“-Legally its clear, but that doesnt mean everyone needs to agree with it!”
But by buying the product and accepting the license agreement(s) you are agreeing with it. I know that’s an easy answer and no, I don’t read the entire agreement first either, but that _is_ what it is…it’s reality. And that’s something you’re going to have to deal with in the end.
And like with any law or agreement there’s always loopholes. So instead of going of like a raging bull everybody should have just try to think of a workable solution first. And now it seems there is one.
I’m not saying Google did everything right and I’m not saying I don’t understand (and partly agree) with the protestors, it’s how you choose to express your discontent. Publicly attacking and insulting Android developers is not the way to go about it. Remember, without those people there would not even be Android, let alone a CyanogenMod.
Lmao man you guys are really embarassing yourselves. I love android as much as the next guy, but seriously take a breath. Its a phone! Calm down! There are much more important things to be worked up about like bills, or work, or friend and family, but to get this up in arms over phone software? Come on guys, its time to go outside and see some sunlight. Alot of you need to get away from the computer screen asap.
http://www.petitiononline.com/savdroid/
A petition to save Custom Builds
Grow up all those who complain now about Google. This is a fact of publishing software that should not have been published. Pure and simple.
For all those who did not jump on the Apple band-wagon, bought an Android phone, and are now say “Eff you Google” – look at yourselves. I bet you count people when you go to sleep.
Is Android a smart OS: YES. Don’t knock an OS because someone has done something they shouldn’t have. Idiots.
How can I live without root? Shock of the century!!! Does it matter you cannot root your phone, to install apps from your SD card: not at all in the grand scheme of things. Is it essential you have root? No.
Cyanogen should release of his OWN version of Android (like HTC did with Hero), built on the OS and with no apps installed. Don’t build Hero for other phones. Build you own version. If people need apps (like Maps or YouTube), they can go to the market and install them as and when needs be. Do things properly or don’t do them at all.
@Escobar9300 – nicely said.
Those who are complaining: Turn on your Android phone, ring your friends, support other peoples FREE applicatons by using them, and use Google maps to find your way out of your mum’s basement.
CyanogenMod is being a spoilt little brat.
@FisherP
I agree that there are way too many whining users because they exaggerate or just don’t understand whats really going on.
However, this has nothing to do with having root or not or with apps2sd. We can still have cyanogen mod ROMs with root and apps2sd and compcache and what not.
@Russel Stewart
well put, those people need to hear themselves speaking ^^
@Escobar9300 and @FisherP – stop telling people what to feel, what to do and how to think. Generalizing isn’t particularly helpful either. You can have your own opinion – but the way you are going, you’re going to have people tell you to keep your opinion to yourself – particularly when it pertains to the Android hacker community. Frankly, both of you just sound like you are trolling.
What has people fuming about the matter is more about the way that Google approached this. Bringing in the lawyers before even raising the matter with the ROM cookers is a nice way to inflame the situation. And it is not like ROM cooking hasn’t been going on for months in the dark. It just goes to show that Google’s corporate values get trumped by lawyer weasel speak every time – which is fine, since now we know. We’ve given vent to our anger, but it is time to move on – legally, in spite of Google, and most likely increasingly without them.
isn’t the simple solution for Google to offer its Google Market App free and open to be put into any ROM?
From there, google controls all apps from the Marketplace. You want GMail? you dl gmail the app from marketplace. you want youtube, dl it.
@JonB – how ironic can you be?
This might be a big deal for some people, but most users will be perfectly happy with Android and will not try to mess around.
I write software myself and intent to develop for Android, but do not intent to alter the OS.
I don’t see why this is such a big deal.
So for anyone who is thinking “Start writing code or STFU” (yes, I am quoting there), here are some people who are planning on doing something about it: http://tinyurl.com/ya2r9gv (Android Open-Source Project on devices). If you’ve got the skills, I’m sure they’ve got a place for you to contribute.
This is ridicolus.. why would google do this..
It is the user-driven scene which makes a windows mobile usable for instance, ie XDA-dev. Doing this will only harm google, I see no advantage in this stupid action. Not even m$ would be stupid enough to do this.
GRR I who was planning on buying an android phone later on this year.. might have to rethink my plans.
@frezorer – Have you thought about an iPhone; you seem to want to jump on a band-wagon after all.
I don’t think you deserve an Android phone, based on your lack of forethought. It is people like you that anger the rest of the community – think of the ‘bigger picture’ for a change.
I think this topic has had more than its fair share of the lime light.
I don’t really get the folk saying we should take a chill pill. Or I guess maybe that comes from those not really associated with the FOSS community. So let me make it plain. You don’t hedge your product on FOSS and then turn around and start screaming proprietary. The people you sought to help you will turn on you in a second. Many people dislike that Google doesn’t release its modified source of Linux and Apache. I don’t agree but many feel its wrong so Google is already in a tense relationship with the FOSS community. Android was a great step but now people are going to be ready to bail if they don’t hurry up and find a way to make Android usable as a stand alone system. Maybe they need to open up the Google apps or at least open the protocol for others to develop them. If they don’t Android is going to take a hard hit from the developer community and in case you hadn’t noticed those are the people that make the apps we love.
–
So before we start claiming this uproar is just a small group of people yelling on IRC lets think a little bit. This isn’t something thats just going to go away. And as I mentioned on another article Moblin is coming along nicely. Moblin has a phone UI already. Many wanted to get Android on many devices like desktops and netbooks which would make a much larger install base and make it more attactive for developers. Moblin does this out of the box where Android ran into some problems. Moblin is 100% FOSS. So if I were Google I’d be very careful about how I handle this situation. All it would take is for a phone company or two to stick Moblin on a phone or internet tablet with phone capabilities and…..well lets just say the FOSS guys will have some place to go if they haven’t all jumped to Palm by then.
@Phil, I don’t understand this: “…lets just say the FOSS guys will have some place to go if they haven’t all jumped to Palm by then.” Why would FOSS guys jump to Palm? Palm’s locked up fairly tight from everything I can see. The same gripes people are having about Google are valid for Palm as well. Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see much “open” about Palm’s system.
That’s honest curiosity on my part, because I just don’t see it that way.
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
-Benjamin Franklin
I’ll be making sure to fly the Jolly Roger with pride from now on.
When you outlaw knowledge, you only ensure that only outlaws will have knowledge.
I agree with Phil. The worst part of all this is that Android was built touting FOSS all the way. The problem here is that the apps themselves are really not open. I would love to see the community-driven Android Open Market. I really hope it happens.
It’s ironic that Microsoft seems to be more open to custom Windows Mobile ROMs than Google is with Android (haven’t heard of any C&D orders for Win Mobile ROMs, anyway).
this is what happens when you are fanboyish to the point of blindless. When your eyes are opened to reality that you become jaded and maligned.
Does this mean that the Motorola Cliq wont be able to use app market or google apps?
The Open Handset Alliance is a sham. It is really the Closed Handset Oligopoly. Nice job Google. You have proved you are no different than Apple and MS.
“eff google”
I was going to switch from the palm pre to the htc hero, but it seems like the pre is more open source than android. Thanks Google!
LOL. You all sound like a bunche of bitches.
“wah! im jumping ship”
“wah! iPhone, here i come”
“wah!”
Shut up. You’re pissed? Really? Now youre going to iPhone? LOL. Dump your ‘droid and go to the other side…. you’ll be crying harder by day 2.
Quit your bitching. You ain’t going anyhwere.
http://www.petitiononline.com
Also if it is illegal for me to copy my applications then why is MY Backup Pro on the App market ????
that videos clip is funny as hell
looking back… this didn’t turn out so bad
seems like everything worked out for the best
:)